[00:00] Bryan Hyde: Welcome to the Phoenix Business Brief Podcast. I'm Bryan Hyde. Today I'm joined by Matt Kenney. He's a founding partner of Echo Canyon Consulting and a specialist in public affairs with nearly a decade of experience. And Matt, glad to have you on the program, but I'm gonna ask you, tell us a little bit more about who you are and what you do. [00:19] Matt Kennedy: Bryan, thank you so much for having me on and allowing me to represent Echo Canyon Consulting. My background is a little unique. My business partners have been in the industry for 25, 30 years. Respectively. I am an Arizona native, grew up down in Tucson, moved up here to go to undergrad at ASU. I've been paying for it ever since with my family who are all Wildcats. [00:46] Bryan Hyde:: Mm-hmm. [00:47] Matt Kenney: I did ROTC while I was in there, so I was in the active duty Army as an infantry officer for some time, came back with my wife to Arizona, went to law school, and at the time, Senator McCain was going to be running for reelection. This was to the end, the middle of 2013 or the fall of 2013. And I found myself getting into like the veteran advocacy space and trying to find like, how do I continue to give back? And Senator McCain, obviously at the time, Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, he was also very influential within the veteran and military community. Started working with him on a number of different things and then ended up helping him with his reelection campaign, which is where I initially met my two business partners. We have been primarily focused for the last 12 years on political campaigns, but about halfway through, we saw an opportunity to really help other organizations, associations, trade groups, even companies, you know, sometimes with their political or government affairs problems. And so we've really expanded. We've gone through kind of multiple iterations of what the company would look like, but we think we got it right here with Echo Canyon Consulting and the people that we built it with. [02:11] Bryan Hyde: So I first have to ask, is there a difference between public affairs and political consulting or running political campaigns, or are those just places where the lines cross? [02:22] Matt Kenney: Yeah, I think that they are very similar and oftentimes in the industry, public affairs firms or companies do political campaigns. We separated it just a little bit. Our public affairs is very much focused on helping associations and groups and companies with their problems and helping them get to the right solution. Then we sort of have a different department that focuses exclusively on political campaigns, candidate campaigns usually, but we've been involved in initiatives and things like that as well. I think that you use a lot of the exact same tools, right? We are doing public affairs, whether it's political or it's more like policy advocacy type of work. However, you have to inform the voters, you have to do education, you have to do persuasion. All of that uses very similar tools, which is you know, why we feel like we are definitely, you know, one of the premier firms that do this in Arizona and one of the top in the country. [03:30] Bryan Hyde: So I have to ask this. In the time that you've been involved with Echo Canyon Consulting, technology hasn't exactly stayed, you know, in one place. Have things changed in the way that you would do public affairs campaigns or political campaigns? I'm curious if there have been changes that might surprise people? [03:51] Matt Kenney: Yeah. One of my favorite books and one of the first things that I read when I started to get more politically involved or really in the political industry was a book called "How to Win Elections" by Stephen Chaddig. You remember, or I'm sorry, John Chaddig, and Chaddig was the campaign manager for Barry Goldwater multiple times. And so he used his expertise there It's funny to go back there 'cause he talks about sort of like the timing of getting bumper stickers out there to do voter contact and doing the postcard campaigns with the legislative districts and things like that. You're absolutely, it has definitely changed. It has changed in some really incredible ways in that we can, we won't ever know how they vote, but you can, hyper-target voters these days. And so whether that's using their IP addresses or being able to advertise directly to their cell phones or their streaming services, it is much more down to the micro level and hyper-targeted. Another area in which we've seen transformation is just more recently is artificial intelligence. [05:06] Bryan Hyde: Mm-hmm. [05:06] Matt Kenney: That has obviously had an impact on every industry, but I think public affairs and grassroots engagement are no exception. You know, we view AI as both a significant opportunity and an important challenge. Organizations that I think embrace these tools responsibly will be able to make better decisions, I think operate more efficiently, and deliver stronger results for their clients. We have actually used it as an opportunity to develop our own proprietary software called Astralis, and that enhances our ability to— in our canvassing and voter contact operations. So, you know, while technology continues to evolve, I think that the firms and companies that are going to be most successful are those, you know, that can successfully combine that cutting-edge technology with the authentic people-centered communication. And Politics, I don't think has changed in one specific way, and that's that this is a people business. It's a relationship business. And so, while I think technology can be supplemental, I don't think that it'll ever replace the retail politics that we have seen be successful over decades and centuries, honestly. [06:23] Bryan Hyde: Matt, in your line of work, there is so much that goes into these campaigns. How does the average person, even those who consider themselves, you know, politically active in that, you know, well, I get informed and I, you know, I go to political events and I read the literature and I go out and I vote, but how aware are they really of everything that it takes, you know, to conduct a proper, effective campaign? [06:47] Matt Kenney: You know, unless you spend a cycle or two inside of a campaign, I'm not sure that you would ever understand all of the complexities. However, I do think that at the bottom line, it's really about getting in front of the voters and delivering a message that's effective to them. I don't think that that part of it has really changed all that much. We see it over and over again. I was on a panel recently for Campaigns and Elections. That's kind of a big company that prides themselves on delivering that type of industry information to professionals about how to be most effective. [07:25] Bryan Hyde: Mm-hmm. [07:25] Matt Kenney: And what we started to discuss is what would you argue is the most important thing in politics today? And whether you're talking about President Trump or Kamala Harris or Governor Hobbs or Governor Ducey, what the similarity there is, is authenticity. And I think that voters are now becoming more sophisticated in that way in which they can start to sniff out sniff out frauds, right? And so I think that it's important for people to go do their research and do their information, do their digging on the candidates to figure out if they're the right person that they want representing them in their district or in the state or in the country. But I do think one area that we could be better at is not believing all of the stuff on social media. I mean, X being a perfect example, it is filled with misinformation and disinformation. There are now studies out there about that. And it's really difficult, I think, for voters to figure out what the truth is. And I think that the best way to do that is to go try to find source material, go and look at, you know, what's going on in the government, or even what the official press releases, either out of campaigns or, you know, depending on the issue that they're focused on, what the company has put out. Because I think that once you start to dig into issues, they're almost never as salacious as you think they are. Well, actually, I'll take that back. In Arizona, we've had some salacious candidates in the past and maybe currently. But I do think that for the most part, a lot of this is spin, and that's what political consultants are sometimes really good at, especially your communications people. [09:13] Bryan Hyde: Mm-hmm. [09:15] Matt Kenney: And I can see that that being really difficult, but I think doing your due diligence and doing the research necessary will, will get you to the right place. [09:23] Bryan Hyde: Let's pivot to Echo Canyon Consulting and talk a little bit about your company. Walk us through the process. How do you build something like this? This was, this was not an existing company. Was it hard to get it off the ground as you first started? [09:40] Matt Kenney: Yeah, no, I think that that is one of the most defining moments of our company's history, was that decision to build something new from the ground up with No guarantees of success. But Echo Canyon was founded by a group of individuals who really had a shared vision for what a values-driven public affairs and grassroots engagement firm could be. And what we decided was we were tenacious enough to take on that goal. I will brag about my business partners. Like I said, they've got a combined 50 years of experience in the industry. One of them is a specialist in political campaigns and has been doing it for a long time, has been on hundreds of them. And through that, you build a lot of relationships too. So I do think that we had a pretty good strategy going into it on how we were going to be successful and what type of brand Echo Canyon would be and how we were going to stand apart. But in addition, from day one, we really committed ourselves to 3 core values. Tenacity, loyalty, and integrity. You know, tenacity gave us the determination to overcome challenges and continue growing, even when the path forward was uncertain. Loyalty helped us build lasting relationships with our team members, clients, and partners. And integrity ensured that we always put honesty and trust at the center of our work. I think with that sort of combination of those core values, we really felt like we could be successful and that there were some, uh, competitive advantages that we had over other firms in the country. [11:15] Bryan Hyde: And talk about, you know, the people who have not only been with your firm but stayed with your firm. My understanding is this kind of work, political consulting and policy work, is a very high turnover kind of business. Talk to me a little bit about Echo Canyon. [11:31] Matt Kenney: Yeah, just to add on to that, I remember I did an internship in Washington, D.C. for a summer In that briefing, you get the standard staffing briefing. I think that they said that the average life cycle of a staffer in Washington, D.C. on the Hill was 9 months long. You're absolutely right. This has one of the fastest turnovers, and politics is also filled with a lot of really ambitious people who want to get to the next level as quick as they possibly can. So we do feel not only lucky, but Also have a lot of pride in the fact that almost everybody who joined the company in the beginning is still with us. You know, and while our work in public affairs, advocacy, grassroots engagement, and political campaigns, you know, often receives a lot of the attention, I think our greatest accomplishment is the team that we've built. We've created an organization grounded in those core values, and we empower our people to grow professionally, take ownership of their work, and support one another through the successes and challenges. We have programs within the company in which, you know, you could go explore certifications or training or classes and courses, and our firm will pay for them because we want to elevate you. More recently, one of our staff members took a campaign course from Yale University. And so like, you know, we, I think that we try to create an environment in which people, like, want to work there, but also see where their future is going. And because we're a young company, but an ambitious company, I think that our employees also see that they can go somewhere with us. Like, we're headed somewhere, and they're all, you know, welcome to come with us if they want to, and we're just generally really lucky that so many of them have stuck with us for so long. [13:24] Bryan Hyde: Matt, could you tell me a little bit about the difference between, say, an election campaign where you're trying to get a particular candidate candidate elected versus trying to move the needle on public policy? Are they, you know, different parts of the same animal, or do you have to take a very different approach when it comes to affecting change in policy? [13:45] Matt Kenney: Yeah, I would argue, not looking at, you know, we don't know what the issue is, but when you're working on a policy, I think that there are variables that you don't have in a candidate race that make it just a little bit easier. You stick to the science of campaigning. Of course, there's a little bit of art and creativity mixed in with that. But what I mean is you poll the issue, you focus group the issue, you deliver an educational message to the voters, you continue to persuade those people that weren't on your side based in the beginning. And then you basically get out the vote or you encourage whatever that action is, if it's a vote or if it's a change to some sort of a policy or rule or something like that. Now, on the political campaign side, as you can imagine, you also have to be dealing with the candidate, oftentimes the candidate's family. And that's like a whole nother variable where, especially if you have a first-time candidate too, who's almost like learning this. [14:51] Bryan Hyde: Mm-hmm. [14:54] Matt Kenney: Trying to build the plane while it's flying, right? And try to really understand what it means to create a political campaign that's successful. And so, you know, there's a little bit of a learning curve, and I think that there's more like interpersonal skills that you learn from working on a candidate campaign. But like I said at the beginning of this, a lot of the tools are very similar, but that's the sort of distinction that I would see between those candidate campaigns and issue-based ones is, You know, you're dealing with an actual human being, person who has a personality, who has his or her own ambitions and desires and wants to do things in a certain way. [15:34] Bryan Hyde: I like that you describe this as kind of a nice hybrid of art and science because the data, of course, is gonna play a huge role. And I think you mentioned earlier, AI in some ways has gotta be a huge game changer in terms of the data about potential voters or, you know, who needs to be reached., but ultimately it comes down to who are you gonna be able to persuade? And that seems like the real art form. [15:56] Matt Kenney: Yeah, absolutely. And you can dig into that, right? You get the data, that's the science part of it. And then you really have to be creative. You know, we go to these conferences, these annual conferences for political consultants, and that are targeted around elections and campaigns and things like that. And I'm always, very surprised in a good way about the creativity that's involved in those ads. AI has added a lot to that. You know, people can be more creative and make those visions that they have in their head become real to share with other people. That, I think, is one of the most exciting parts is seeing the sort of creativity of politics grow using AI and seeing people's creative ideas come to fruition. [16:43] Bryan Hyde: Yeah. And I just wanna be clear on this too. We've talked a lot about public policy and advocacy, as well as political stuff, but do you also do corporate consulting as well? Like if people have, corporations have public affairs that they want help on, Echo Canyon is someone they can turn to? [17:04] Matt Kenney: Yeah, absolutely. We've been helping a number of companies, a couple Fortune 100 companies, and in addition, some very high-profile companies that have been in the news in the last year or so with perception problems that were self-created. They shot themselves in the foot. Then they're like, "Hey, how do I get out of this? How do I help get my brand back to the way it was before?" There is so many similarities between a campaign, we'll use a candidate campaign, for example, where You're building a brand around a person and you're using several different available methods to be able to do that. And so companies will reach out to us to do that type of public affairs and PR work. But in addition, companies are subject to what happens down at the legislature and on Capitol Hill. And so we are also engaged by a number of government affairs and public affairs internal C-suite members to try to help them externally with, you know, getting the ball across the finish line, whatever that may be for them. [18:21] Bryan Hyde: Okay, so final question then, Matt, how can people access you? How can they reach out to Echo Canyon Consulting? [18:28] Matt Kenney: Absolutely. Our website is echocanyonconsulting.com. You can also find myself on X, Matt Kenny USA. You can also find me on LinkedIn by just searching my name, Matt Kenny. You can also find John Seton and Ryan Price. Those are my two business partners. If you're bored too, kind of digging into the work that they've done is super exciting. Ryan has helped run multiple RNC conventions. John has worked on presidential, gubernatorial, Senate, congressional, anything that you can think of types of races. And so yeah, connect with us on LinkedIn and we'd be happy to talk to you. And see if there are ways that we could work together. [19:09] Bryan Hyde: Again, we've been visiting with Matt Kenny. He is a founding partner at Echo Canyon Consulting. Matt, thanks for joining us on the Phoenix Business Brief podcast. [19:18] Matt Kenney: Brian, thank you so much for having me. I look forward to the next one.